AIDIA Dialogue With Hon'ble Minister Pradeep Kumar Gyawali
Thematic Question- First Episode of AIDIA Dialogue 

Guest: Hon’ble Pradeep Kumar Gyawali, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nepal

Opening

Namaste, and Welcome to the very First Episode of AIDIA Dialogue.

AIDIA Dialogue, is a weekly television talk show, an initiative of Asian Institute of Diplomacy and International Affairs (AIDIA), foreign policy think tank based in Kathmandu.

With the theme of ‘Shaping the making of Foreign policy’, rather than just randomly picking up the issues for discussion from day to day headlines, this show intends to cover the incisive analysis on various facets of Nepal’s global affairs. Most significantly, AIDIA Dialogue aims to support in right-tracking the discourse and direction of Nepal’s foreign policy. From now onwards we come to you every Wednesday at 9.30 pm only on ap1tv.

In this show we will be talking to the politicians, bureaucrats, foreign diplomats, international relations scholars, business community, and other prominent figures for issue focused and robust constructive discourse.

In this first episode of AIDIA Dialogue, I am going to talk with the Foreign Minister of Nepal, Mr. Pradeep Kumar Gyawali, mainly focusing on the foreign policy achievements, issues of major bilateral relation and priorities of his government.

Hon’ble Minster, Welcome to the AIDIA Dialogue

And, I am delighted to receive you as our first guest.

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It has been more than a year that you have been leading the Foreign Ministry; can you just highlight some of the major outcomes of foreign policy?

Most note worthy achievements or development you can say of this year that Nepal’s profile is gradually evolving, increasing and it is being more visible, more audible, and more constructive. Our foreign policy is becoming more pro active rather than pro reactive. It is foreseeable, consistent. As you know, it is a well known statement that every foreign policy is the extended form of its national policy when we are focusing in our domestic fronts to achieve rapid economic growth to fulfill desire of Nepali people to have decent life. That’s why the Government has set the motto of prosperous Nepal and happy Nepali. Our foreign policy has been refined fine tuned so that we can accomplice(2:57) with our domestic parodies that’s why that my assumptions in this ministry we have constructively engaged with our neighbors, our developing partners, with our labor destinations and also with our multi lateral and regional forums. So in the nutshell I will focus that, now Nepal is, gradually in the focus of the attention of the global community.

Honorable Minster, you just said that we are being heard and seen, we are grabbing the attention in the center spot light of the global arena, is it because of our internal effort or because of our location, as we between two giant economies?

Both, they have contributed to increase our profile in attention. Of course! The geo politics matters. Nepal is fortunate that we have been located between two big global largest markets and most promising economy of this 21st century. After the holding of the three tiers election in 2017 now we have a very strong and almost 2/3 majority government so, based upon this political stability and the political achievements we have strengthened our global attention as we focused. Because Nepal can offer a lot in the investment in the trade in the tourism and even in the issues of the global concerns like climate change, like peace building, like gender equality and many more.

Honorable Minster I will come to economic diplomacy and other aspects on the later part of the show, here I would like to know that today’s Nepal is different Nepal; as a Foreign Minister, do you have a specific dream or vision to lead Nepal’s Foreign Policy? how do you want to shape Nepal’s Foreign Policy in the days to come because its been said that we don’t have proper concrete foreign policy our policies are always driven by people’s will and interest do have any plans to shape Nepal’s foreign policy?

Actually foreign policy has two component, one is permanent more stable and more consistent and second is new content new elements which are to comply with change; national and global context. Nepal has always perusing the foreign policy based upon sovereignty, national integrity national dignity Non-Alignment based on the principle of Pancheseel and peaceful settlement of disputes.

Don’t you feel in the past it was quite shaky?

To some extent, but what we can be proud that, basically Nepal perused a consistent and balanced foreign policy. That’s why even in the adverse situation Nepal was able to maintain its sovereignty. You just mentioned that dynamics are changing the power shifting, there is a whole new era occurring, its seems like that, is it a challenge to maintain a balanced foreign policy? (chuckles) Yes! Of course! Sometimes we feel that type of stress, because having located in the excellent geo-location and having its own strategic advantage Nepal is always being the centre of the attention either for positive intention or other vested interest so sometime the big powers they want to have Nepal’s policy in compliance with their strategy or interest but we have established an very consistent policy guideline, when we engage with our partners or our friends. Major policy guidelines for our engagements is “amity with all and enmity with none” there are no any enemy or hostile forces towards Nepal we want to be linked so we have no any big that type of global or regional ambitions just our ambitions is how we can lift our 80% poor’s within a very short span of time.

But having said this, Honorable Minister we have to lead our own way we have to march forward in the path of rapid economic growth, but how difficult it is to build our own way, like you said we have our own agendas we have our own national policy, that just ensures national growth? Are we ready to cope up the pressure?

We should and we are trying our best because in this globalised world no single country can move alone it should make the adjustments, it should make the linkages it should make the cooperation and collaboration what is the biggest challenge today is we have the shortage of resources or resource gap. Because to be graduated from least development status by 2022 at least 16 to 17 billion dollar capital investment per year, so far government is just investing around 5 billion or million (10:17) dollar and private sector maybe 6-7 million dollar we lack around five six million dollar every year that’s why the growth though there is a big potential there is 6-7 % in average. So we have to welcome different direct investment, we have to welcome official development assistance and we have to develop joint ventures with our development partners and investors. So we should, though we should always be guided by national priorities, national interest must be kept in the center but the collaboration and cooperation is extremely important.

Making adjustments and compromising on national issues there is a very specific line I hope the nation is aware, we are trying to maintain a perfect balance between two giant neighbors and Nepal being small economy has always catered to economy powerhouse in neutral fashion in the past has it taken a stand on issues or taken side in the past, but these days people argue that the neutrality approach has been diminishing, do you have any comments.

Neutrality is a relative term it is not any absolute meaning when there is some type of military tensions, disputes, strategic clashes between the friends in that case we should give your neutral positions and we should always peruse the policy of the peaceful resolutions of the dispute . you cannot take a side between a neighbors because we need equally the cooperation of both neighboring countries. We cannot shot down the door of one side and open the door for other side. We should be associated with both the sides so that’s why if you are talking about the neutrality in the period of austerity than it is still relevant.

Being more specific this government has been repetitively accused of catering and pandering to emerging power house like China do you have to say anything?

Actually china has contributed significantly uplifting more than 800 million above the poverty lines over the period of 40 years it is a type of miracle the uplifting of 80 corers people is the big contributions not only for the Chinese people but to the global humanity as well so the development path the development methodology, innovation that they are using as, they are exemplary and we should learn. Keep aside what political ideology Chinese government is perusing, what is the biggest thing is that they have proved that they have the ability for the well being of the people so we want to be connected with our both neighbors and definitely with India we are already linked various means because border is open, topography is more easier but for the Chinese side some geographical barriers are also there but thanks to the scientific research and innovations those barriers has been sidelined and we can enhance more frequent connections with Chinese market .

Honorable Minister, you just mentioned Nepal is getting a center spotlight in global arena. But somewhere I feel whether it is about Nepal facing economic blockade or Nepali workers abroad involved in legal disputes regarding exploitation and discrimination. These incidents are hardly covered or these incidents do not get any visibility. Your take on this?

With the collaboration and coordination with the Ministry of Labor, we are consistently engaged to have a safer migration. Nepal is now leading the Colombo process, which is a process of the labour sending or labour resources countries and we want to have a fair recruitment, fair process, descent work, fair repatriation of their remittance or their earning to make all these things and to safeguard the rights of our migrant workers. Nepal is working very closely with the labour destination countries. Due to some lapses in our government organs in a type of nexus of human traffickers, I may say, there are still some cases which are very worrisome but we are trying our best to have a safer migration and to safeguard the right of the migrant workers.

It is always said economic diplomacy is the driving force ofeconomic factor of any nation. What is your take on this? Are we doing enough to promote trade, tourism, to attract big investors? Are we putting adequate effort?

Basically we have five major components when we talk about economic diplomacy: how we can enhance the official development assistance at least for the time being because ODA is gradually shrinking the big nations they have no interest to official assistance but rather they prefer loans, investments. However, as the least developed country and as the country which is still struggling to be rebuilt and reconstructed after the devastating earthquake, we need some ODA. So one major part is the ODA. Second is the foreign direct investment. Third is the tourism promotion and next year we are going to hold the “visit Nepal Year 2020” to welcome more than 2 million tourist from the globe. Fourth is technology transfer and boost the trade. And fifth is a big Nepali diaspora is abroad. Around 5 million Nepali people work in abroad and they have lot of resources, lot of knowledge, lot of technical know- how. So to make a wider collaboration, meaning collaboration with the Nepali diaspora is also one of the part of economic diplomacy.

Are you happy with the government’s initiation to push economic diplomacy because I think in the past economic diplomacy was never our agenda and we were happy with goodwill gestures only but now things have changed?

Not enough. We have to invest to develop policies, to groom, to train and to make sufficient human resources which can fulfill this new assignments and we should have more frequent and prompt communication as well. So there are lot of things to be done. But we have a right start, a right beginning, we have made a major policy initiative in this regard.

As you just mentioned our diplomatic missions can be a part of our diplomatic economy and they can push our economy in the global arena. Are you happy with the role our diplomatic missions are playing? Primarily they are expected to protect the interest of the home country in the respective host nation but there are number of questions being raised from appointment of ambassador to diplomatic misconduct and also the grievances from Nepali citizens residing abroad. There are so many issues going around. Are you happy with the role?

I am continuously following the comments, inputs about our diplomatic engagements and performances of our diplomats. Cabinet has passed new directives on the appointment and criteria of the ambassadors and we are strictly implementing those criteria and we are going to hold a meeting of our honorary consoles which are working in more than 50 countries most probably in coming June. We will invite them and we will discuss how they can serve best for the interest of Nepal.

Now I would like to draw you attention to EPG. There is a huge expectation from EPG. EPG had already completed the report with the recommendation for necessary revision in our bilateral treaties. When do you think the government will formally receive the report?

This process was really a big initiative to review, to redefine and redesign the Nepal- India relations because new phenomena and new components have evolved over the years and we have to adjust those dynamics. And there were are still are some grievances from Nepali side about the 1950’s treaties and many more. So the right honorable Prime Minister K. P. Sharma Oli and his Excellency Narendra Modi initiated to form this Eminent Person Group to review and recommend the required new level of relations between Nepal and India. I do believe that the report has an excellent and more interestingly the report has been finalized in a unanimous manner. There is no reservation; there is no note of dissent. That is very big thing I think but the handling of our submission has been a little delayed. The Indian side have told us that due to the election, the leaders are quite busy and immediately after the general election of Lok Sabha, they will receive and implement the recommendations of the EPG. I do believe that because this initiation was taken by two leaders, both are in leadership and it is a call or the time that we should review and we should develop in a new way for our relations. That’s why I am quite optimistic that the report of the EPG will be submitted and it will be implemented.

The necessary recommendation will be taken care of? Because there is a huge expectation from Nepali side.

Of course it should be and we will try our best to implement those recommendations.

Now quickly I’d like to jump over BRI. Nepal is a part of China- led Belt and Road initiative project but there are some concerns regarding the financing of the infrastructure project under this initiative. What is your reading and how government will deal with such concerns in order to avoid any negative economic repercussion and to make it a win-win deal for all of us?

Essence or core message of this initiative is inclusive development. What is in the center is that we are the humankind with shared destiny; we cannot move alone. That’s why the co- journey and cooperation is extremely needed. So it is a new manifestation of the cooperation between the nations, between the communities, between the institutions. So being convinced and attracted by the core message of inclusive development approach, Nepal has decided to be a part of BRI. Second, being a landlocked country, Nepal critically needs the wider connectivity. So our primary interest from BRI is cross- border connectivity. So far, when the financing is concerned, it will be decided by bilateral consultations. It is not imposed. Chinese leadership has always been intending its message that there will be no imposition; every nation has sovereign right to choose its projects, to decide the funding modality and operation modality.

Recently IMF said that the grant offered by China is a debt-trap. One should be very aware as there are no transparency in such debt. Your remarks on that statement.

In the decades of 1990s and 2000s, many countries of Latin America faced severe debt trap but China was not the lender at that time. Greece is still struggling to come out but there was no any Chinese investment. It is based upon how you choose your projects; how you negotiate with your investors.

Of course that matters but are we taking adequate measures to avoid debt trap, if they are traps?

Nepal is capable to judge and to identify what is in the best interest of the nation. So no need for unnecessary skepticism, doubt or suspicions. Government will decide in transparent manner. But I must say the rumors of frequent acquisition, please prescribe us those names of individuals or institutions which are philanthropists; who do not have their own interest and they can easily lend money for the development of Nepal. If there are so many philanthropists of that kind, Nepal will be happy but in this context every nation should take necessary technical, financial and other assistance from the developed countries.

But our national interest should be in the center.

No doubt on that regard.

We have almost come to the end. I would like to ask about the ‘Sagarmatha Dialogue’. Recently the government announced on hosting ‘Sagarmatha Dialogue” share us more about the initiative, including agenda and theme of this dialogue.

It is an initiation taken by Nepal government to share its own experiences in various fields to draw the attention of global communities to pertinent issues of the present day and to take the lead in some areas. We have many things to share, to tell with our friends. Climate change- one of the most pertinent issue, our unique home- grown peace process and its experiences can be shared, our inclusive democracy in which around 41% female representatives are there—it is also promising; and in other areas also we can share we can discuss, we can learn and we can offer some of our best practices.

Lastly I would like to ask as the theme of our showreads ‘Shaping the Making of Foreign Policy’, how do you analyze the contribution of think tanks of Nepal and do ministry have any special plan to reform the government supported thinks thanks?

Of course, they are playing and they can play a very instrumental role for policy input, policy recommendation and policy feedbacks. That’s why we are trying to strengthen our institute of foreign affairs on hand and we are collaborating with various others think tanks like AFCAN, which is the Association of former career ambassadors, ASNA which is the Association of former political appointee ambassadors and other institutions are also there and government has couple of months ago established a policy institute. We will collaborate with them and we will be very happy to support them and to take the name of NCWA i.e. Nepal Council for World Affairs and other agencies like AIDIA are also doing good job. Our Ministry will collaborate with them in various fields.

Honorable Minister, thank you for your time and insiteful remarks.